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 Proposition de Reglement F3B-e

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PatrickM
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Nombre de messages : 124
Localisation : Vert Saint Denis 77
Date d'inscription : 28/01/2014

MessageSujet: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 1 Fév 2018 - 6:47

Bonjour,
Voici un proposition de règlement pour le F3B-e réalisé par Ralf Decker.
Tout n'est pas figé, il reste ouvert a discussion sur notamment les caractéristiques du moteur et les pénalités fonction de l'altitude et autres.
Vous pouvez avoir le document complet ICI
Patrick

Mise a jour au 27/03/18

VOLUME F3 SOARING
PART FIVE - TECHNICAL REGULATIONS FOR RADIO CONTROLLED CONTESTS  

5.8. CLASS F3B-e – MULTI-TASK GLIDERS WITH ELECTRIC MOTOR
5.8.1. General Rules  
5.8.1.1. Definition of a Radio Controlled Glider with electric motor
Model which is provided with an electric motor. Model with variable geometry or area must comply with the specification when the surfaces are in maximum and minimum extended mode. The model must be controlled by the competitor on the ground using radio control. Any variation of geometry and/or area must be actuated at distance by radio control.  
5.8.1.2. Characteristics data of Radio Controlled Gliders F3B-e  
Minimum wing-loading   35 g/dm²
Maximum wing-loading   75 g/dm²
Maximum flight mass 5 kg
Maximum energy 400 Wmin  
Maximum “Average Input power” 800 W, Peak ≤ 900 W
Battery   Any type of rechargeable batteries
Motor   Any type of motor
Minimum nose-/spinner radius   7.5 mm (see template)
 
TEMPLATE FOR NOSE-/SPINNER-RADIUS
5.8.1.3 Technical equipment
a) Each model must be fitted with an approved Logger (LOG) in accordance with the Technical Specification published in F3B-e LOG Technical Documentation.  

b) The LOG must be approved by the EDIC (ELECTRONIC DEVICES IN COMPETITIONS WORKING GROUP).

c) The LOG is located in the electric circuit between the battery and the motor.

d) Installation of the LOG in the model shall be in accordance with the requirements as detailed in the Technical Guidance Documentation.

e) Proper operation of the LOG including any associated display and its compatibility with other control equipment installed in the model is the responsibility of the individual competitor.

f) To facilitate initial technical processing, all LOGs must be easily removable for compliance checking. The receiver command signal connection to the LOG must be easily accessible so that at any time during the competition the organisers have the option of installing a monitoring LOG via a branching Y lead.

g) To enable the timekeeper to record data required for scoring purposes there must be easy access to the display or the connector for a plug-in-display. It must not be necessary to disconnect the LOG from the receiver and/or the ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) or to remove it from the model.  

h) The use of an additional extension cable is permitted for connecting the display. It is the responsibility of the competitor to ensure that any incorrect connection does not result in damage to the LOG or the display.

i) Any device other than an approved LOG which is carried in or on the model and which enables total or partial independent control over the model ´s electric drive motor-operation, is prohibited. Receivers and ESC´s are not affected by this rule.
j) The functions of the LOG is to record “altitude”, “voltage” and “current “and to represent “altitude”, “amount of energy”, “average power” and the “peak-power” at a display.

k) The motor can be stopped by the pilot or is stopped automatically after thirty (30) seconds  or if the energy-limit of 400 Wmin is reached; afterwards the motor can´t be switched on again.
 
l) If the “average power” exceeds 800 W there is a deduction of one (1) point/one (1) Watt

m) If the “peak-power” exceeds 900 W there is a deduction of one (1) point/one (1) Watt

n) LOG data must be shown to the official immediately after the flight.  

5.8.1.4. General requirements
a) No fixed or retractable arresting device (i.e. bolt, saw tooth-like protuberance, etc.) is allowed to slow down the model on the ground during landing.  
b) Any transmission of information from the model to the competitor is prohibited, with the exception of signal strength and voltage of the receiver battery. Any use of telecommunication devices (including transceivers and telephones) in the field to communicate with competitors, their helpers or team managers while doing the competition task is not allowed.  
c) The competitor may use a maximum of three (3) models in the contest. All exchangeable parts (wing, fuselage, tail planes, joiner) must be marked uniquely and in a way that does not allow replication of this mark on additional parts.  
d) The competitor may combine the parts of the model during the contest; provided the resulting model used for flight conforms to the rules and that the parts have been checked before the start of the contest. See also 5.8.2.1.  
5.8.1.5. Competitors and Helpers  
The competitor must operate his radio equipment personally. Each competitor is permitted up to three (3) helpers, including the team manager, who must not give any turning signals near base B during tasks B and C.  
5.8.1.6. Definition of an Attempt  
a) For each task (ref. 5.3.2.1.), during the working time allocated, the competitor is entitled an unlimited number of attempts. An attempt starts when the motor of the model is switched on. No change of model or parts of the model (except a damaged propeller) is allowed after starting the first attempt.  
b) The competitor is entitled to a new working time period if any of the following conditions occur and are duly witnessed by an official of the contest:  
1) His model in flight collides with another model in flight, or another model in the process of launch (released for flight by the competitor or his helper). Should the flight continue in a normal manner, the competitor may demand that the flight in progress be accepted as official, even if the demand is made at the end of the original working time  
2) His model in the process of launch collides with another model also in the process of launch (released for flight by the competitor or his helper), or with another model in flight. Should the flight continue in a normal manner, the competitor may demand that the flight in progress be accepted as official, even if the demand is made at the end of the original working time  
3) The flight has not been judged by the fault of the judges or timekeepers.  
4) In the case of an unexpected event, outside the competitor’s control, the flight has been hindered or aborted.  
c) For all cases described above the competitor may demand that the flight in progress in which the event occurred will be accepted as official. Note is made that in the event the competitor continues to launch or does a re-launch he is deemed to waive his right to a new working time.  
d) The competitor has the right to change his model during a current round and this is not withstanding rule 5.8.2.1. if:  
1) His model collides with another model in flight; he has the right for a re-fly but his model is not reparable in time.  
2) His model has landed (final or intermediate landing) and is damaged by a landing model of another competitor and the model is not reparable in time.  
3) In the case of 1) or 2) above, once the competitor has exercised his right to change his damaged model , that model  must not be used in any subsequent task(s) in the current round, with the exception stated in paragraph 5.8.1.5.d)  
e) In case of additional attempts in task A (Duration) or task B (Distance) during a round the competitors must fly within a group that is not complete in number or in one or more groups newly formed.
5.8.1.7. Definition of the Official Flight  
The official flight is the last flight performed during the working time.  
5.8.1.8. Cancellation of a Flight, Penalty and Disqualification  
a) Unless otherwise specified a flight in progress will be annulled for an infraction of any rule. In the case of intentional or flagrant violation of the rules, in the judgement of the Contest Director, the competitor may be disqualified.  
b) The flight in progress will be penalised with 100 points if the model loses any part either during the launch or the flight. The loss of any part in a collision with another model or during landing (i.e. in contact with the ground) is not taken into account. The penalty of 100 points will be a deduction from the competitor’s final score and shall be listed on the score sheet of the round in which the penalisation was applied.  
c) The competitor is disqualified if the model in flight is controlled by anyone other than the competitor.  
d) If the model touches either the competitor or his helper during landing manoeuvres of task A, no landing points will be given.  
5.8.1.9. Organisation of Starts  
a) The competitors shall be combined in groups with a draw, to permit as many flights simultaneously as possible. Incomplete teams may be to their request combined into a working team. The draw is organised in such a way that there are no competitors of the same working team in the same group. At World and Continental Championship the reigning champion, if participating outside the national team, may join his national team to form a working team.  
b) The composition of the groups must be changed every round in order to have different combinations of competitors. For task A-Duration there must be a minimum of five (5) competitors in a group. For task B-Distance there must be a minimum of three (3) competitors in a group. For task  C- Speed a group may consist of eight (Cool competitors or all competitors.  
It is preferable for the organiser to orientate the starting order for task C at the inverted ranking calculated out of the results of all tasks flown until that moment. For the first round the starting order for task C should always be identical with the starting order of task A. Alternatively the organiser may use the starting order for task A-Duration in subsequent task C-Speed rounds.  
c) The result of a group is annulled if only one (1) competitor has a valid result. In this case, the group will fly again and this result will be the official result.  
d) The flying order of different groups is established with the draw too. A different starting order shall be used for each round.  
e) The competitors are entitled to five (5) minutes of preparation time before the starter gives the order to count off working time.  
5.8.1.10. Organisation of Contests  
a) Transmitter pound see C.16.2.2  
b) Sighting apparatus, winches or any device constituting an obstacle, should be placed on Base A and Base B, a minimum of five (5) metres from the safety plane for task C. Apparatus for judging the safety plane in task C shall be placed a minimum distance of five (5) metres from Base A or B outside the course.  
c) The contest director must inform without delay the competitor and/or his team manager about any decision taken, e.g. in the case of a re-fly, a penalty etc.  
5.8.1.11. Safety Rules  
a) The organiser must clearly mark the boundary between the landing area and the safety area assigned for other activities. (See sketch “F3B/F3B-e flying field layout” page 10)  
b) After release of the model  from the hand of the competitor or helper, any contact of the model  with any object (earth, car, stick, plant, tow-line at combined F3B/F3B-e competitions, etc.) within the safety area will be penalised by 300 points, except in the circumstances described in paragraph 5.8.1.6 b) items 1, 2, 3, and 4. Contact with a person within the safety area will be penalised by 1000 points. The number of contacts during one attempt does not matter (maximum one (1) penalty for one attempt). The penalty will be a deduction of 300 or 1000 points from the competitor’s final score and shall be listed on the score sheet of the round in which the penalisation was applied.  

5.8.1.12. Weather Conditions/Interruptions

a) The maximum wind speed for F3B-e contests is twelve (12) m/sec. The contest has to be interrupted or the start delayed by the contest director if the wind speed exceeds twelve (12) m/sec measured three (3) times for at least twenty (20) seconds in a time interval of five (5) minutes two (2) metres above the ground at the start and landing area.

b) In the case of rain, the contest director can interrupt the contest during task A and task B. When the rain stops, the contest starts again with the group that was flying, which receives a re-flight.

c) In the case of rain, the contest director must interrupt the contest during task C. When the rain stops the contest start again with the pilot that was flying; he receives a re-flight. The whole group of task C must be divided in a meaningful number of equal groups depending on the total number of competitors before the task starts. If the weather is stable only one (1) group is evaluated; if the competition must be interrupted more than fifteen (15) minutes, then the interrupted group must start from the beginning and the results are evaluated for each group.


5.8.2. RULES FOR MULTI-TASK CONTESTS  
5.8.2.1. Definition  
a) This contest is a multi-task event for radio controlled gliders with electric motor, which includes three tasks:  A) Duration  
B) Distance  
C) Speed  

b) The combination of task A, B and C constitutes a round. A minimum of one (1) round and one (1) task must be flown that the competition is valid. The result of a World or Continental Championships is valid if five (5) complete rounds are flown; if more than five (5) complete rounds are flown, see paragraph 5.8.2.8. Classification.  
At the discretion of the organiser any task may be flown first in a scheduled round. In the case of unstable weather conditions, lack of time or technical issues it is possible fly task A or task B of the following round before task C of the current round. No other change of the schedule is allowed. The scheduled task must be completed. If the model is damaged during the pre-drawn task A or task B the competitor is entitled to change the model for task C of the previous round.  
c) Any single round must be completed with the same model, without any change of parts, except a damaged propeller. Only the addition of ballast (which must be located internally the model and with which the model  must conform to rule 5.8.1.2. and/or change of angles of setting are allowed.  
5.8.2.2. Launching/Relaunching  
a) All hand-launches and hand-relaunches (no start carriage and catapult) shall take place in an area as designated by the organiser with provisions made for launching into the wind (see “flying field layout” page 10)
b) The landing for a relaunch has to take place in an area designed by the contest director.  
c) For safety reasons it is not allowed to catch the model.
d) The reset of the logger must be done manually; a reset via transmitter is forbidden.
5.8.2.3. Task A-Duration  
a) This task must be completed within twelve (12) minutes from the order of the starter, including the rise time.

b) The model shall be launched in the direction(s) determined by the contest director. The maximum run-time of the motor is limited to thirty (30) seconds. One (1) point will be awarded for each full second from the time the motor is switched on to the time the model comes to rest on the defined flying site, up to a maximum of 600 seconds, or each full second of flight within the working time; if the model does not land on the defined flying site the whole flight is zero. No points will be awarded for flight time in excess of working time.

c) One point will be deducted for each full second flown in excess of 600 seconds.

d) The start altitude (maximum altitude) is the altitude attained above a ground level reference between the motor is switched on and ten (10) seconds after the motor is stopped.

1) The start altitude shall be rounded down to the nearest metre.

2) Each metre of the recorded start altitude results in a deduction of half (0,5) a second/metre up to 250 metres and three (3) seconds/metre above 250 metres.

3) Where the score is negative (below zero), a zero score will be recorded.  

e) Additional points will be awarded for landing, depending upon distance from the spot marked by the organiser, according to the following table:  

Distance from spot (m) Points Distance from spot (m) Points  
1   100 9   60  
2   95   10   55  
3   90   11   50  
4   85   12   45  
5   80   13   40  
6   75   14   35  
7   70   15   30  
8   65   over 15   0  

The distance is measured from the model nose (spinner) when at rest to the centre of the spot; the measured distance is rounded to the nearest higher metre.  

No points will be awarded for the quality of landing and if the flight time exceeds 630 seconds.  

f) For model still in the air when the twelve (12) minutes expire, the elapsed flight time only will be taken into consideration for scoring, without any additional points for the precision of landing.
g) The motor can be stopped by the pilot or is stopped automatically after thirty (30) seconds  or if the energy-limit of 400 Wmin is reached; afterwards the motor can´t be switched on again.
h) Not allowed is to stop the motor automatically at a certain altitude boundary.  
i) A classification based on decreasing number of points awarded will be compiled, called "Partial Score A" - see 5.8.2.6.
5.8.2.4. Task B - Distance  
a) The model shall be launched in the direction(s) determined by the contest director.
Afterwards it shall fly directly without big deviation in the direction of the “active” Base B or at a downwind situation in the direction to the “virtual” (if direction of the course has not be changed) Base B until the motor is stopped automatically by the energy-limiter or after thirty (30) seconds whatever occurs first. If the pilot does not pay any attention to this rule he gets a penalty of 300 points. The penalty of 300 points will be a deduction from the competitor’s final score and shall be listed on the score sheet of the round in which the penalisation was applied. Crossing Base A in the direction to Base B with running motor is penalized with a zero result.

b) This task must be completed within seven (7) minutes from the order of the starter, including the rise time. The trial begins only after the motor has stopped.
c) When the model , in flight, first crosses Base A (imaginary vertical plane) in the direction to Base B, the actual flight time of four (4) minutes maximum starts, during which time the model  must complete as many legs as possible from the starting Base A to Base B and conversely.  
d) A visual system or a combined audio-visual system announces to the competitor when his model crosses Base A or Base B (imaginary vertical planes). The absence of a signal will indicate that the model has failed to correctly cross the base. The instruments used to check the crossing of the vertical planes must assure the parallelism of such planes. Timing and signalling shall occur when any part of the intact model in flight crosses the base. If an audio-visual system is used, signalling is also valid when the audio system fails.  
e) The models will be identified by flags of different colours for each competitor in the group. When the competitor intends to start his helper waves the flag; when the model is identified by the associated helpers at base A and base B they wave the flag with the corresponding colour as well. At that moment the pilot can launch.

The competitor must stay within a distance of ten (10) metres either side of Base A during the timed flight.  
f) For a model which lands within four (4) minutes flight time only the full 150 metres legs will be counted. For model still in the air when the four (4) minutes flight time or seven (7) minutes expires, whichever comes first, only the completed legs at that moment will be taken into account.  
g) After having completed the task, the model must land on the defined flying-site outside the safety area(s) otherwise the flight is zero.  
h) A classification based on decreasing number of total flown legs during the flight time will be compiled, and points given as described in 5.8.2.6., thus establishing the “Partial Score B".  
5.8.2.5. Task C – Speed
a) The model shall be launched in the direction(s) determined by the contest director.
Afterwards it shall fly directly without big deviation in the direction of the “active” Base B or at a downwind situation in the direction to the “virtual” (if direction of the course has not be changed) Base B until the motor is stopped automatically by the energy-limiter or after thirty (30) seconds whatever occurs first. If the pilot does not pay any attention to this rule he gets a penalty of 300 points. The penalty of 300 points will be a deduction from the competitor’s final score and shall be listed on the score sheet of the round in which the penalisation was applied. Crossing Base A in the direction to Base B with running motor is penalized with a zero result.
b) This task must be completed within four (4) minutes, from the order of the starter including the climb time. The model must start the task at Base A within ninety (90) seconds after the motor was switched on. If the ninety (90) seconds period expires before the model has crossed Base A for the first time, flying from Base A to Base B, then the model must be landed and re-launched within the original working time period.  
c) The task consists of flying the distance starting from Base A, to Base B, and conversely, four (4) legs in the shortest possible time.  
d) The flight time is recorded to at least 1/100 sec when the model  in flight first crosses Base A at the predetermined side of the safety-plane and completes four (4) legs of the 150 metres course.
e) An audio system will inform the competitor when the model crosses the Base A or Base B (imaginary vertical planes). The absence of a signal will indicate that the model has failed to correctly cross the Base. The instruments used to check the crossing of the vertical planes must assure the parallelism of such planes. The signal is given when any part of the intact model in flight crosses the base. The source of the signal (horn, loudspeaker) must not be further than thirty (30) metres away from the intersection of base A and the safety plane.
f) During the timed flight the competitor must stay within a distance of ten (10) metres either side from Base A.  
g) After having completed the task, the model must land on the defined flying-site outside the safety area(s) otherwise the flight is zero.  
h) Model which comes to rest before having completed the task will score zero.  
i) During task C the timed flight shall take place to one side of the safety plane, whilst all judges/timekeepers shall remain on the other side of the safety plane. The side which is to be flown shall be indicated by the organisers taking into account the direction of the sun, etc.
The flight will be penalised with 300 points, when sighted by means of an optical aid, the safety plane is crossed by any part of the model. The instrument used to check the crossing of the vertical safety plane must also assure that the safety plane is orthogonal to Base A and Base B. The penalty of 300 points will be a deduction from the competitor’s final score and shall be listed on the score sheet of the round in which the penalisation was applied.  
j) After the stop of the motor, when the model has crossed Base A flying in the direction to Base B, no further attempt is permitted unless the competitor signals his intention to re-launch before Base A is crossed.  
k) A classification based on increasing times to complete the four 150 metres legs will be compiled, and points given as described in 5.8.2.6., thus establishing "Partial Score C".  
5.8.2.6. Partial Scores  

a) Partial Score for Task A for each competitor is determined as follows:  

Partial Score A = 1000 x P1 / PW

P1 ≤ 250 m = Flight [s] – 0,5 x height-start altitude [m] (5.8.2.3.)

P1 > 250 m = Flight [s] – ((250 [m] x 0,5) + (3 x (height-start altitude [m] - 250 [m])) (5.8.2.3)

PW = points of the winner in the related group.  

b) Partial Score for Task B for each competitor is determined as follows  

Partial Score B = 1000 x D1/DW

Where D1 = distance covered by the competitor as for 5.8.2.4.  

DW = distance covered by the winner in the related group.  

c) Partial Score for Task C for each competitor is determined as follows  

Partial Score C = 1000 x TW/T1  

Where T1 = time of the competitor as for 5.8.2.5.  
TW = time of the winner in the related group.
5.8.2.7. Total Score  
The competitor’s Total Score for each round is compiled by adding the Partial Scores of all tasks.  
5.8.2.8. Classification  
If only five (5) rounds are flown, the competitor’s classification is determined by the sum of all Total Scores for each round. If more than five (5) complete rounds are flown the lowest partial score of each task with more than five (5) results is omitted from the sum of all partial scores. To decide the winner when there is a tie, the two (2) (or all who have the equal score) competitors will fly an additional round (three (3) tasks).  
5.8.2.9. Site  
The competition must be held at a site having reasonably level terrain, with a reasonably low probability of slope or wave soaring.  
 
For a combined F3B/F3B-e competition the launch of the F3B-e models takes place at the “startline(s) F3B-e”.
For a F3B-e competition the launch takes place at the “start-line F3B-e” (former F3B winch-line).

Nota: Il manque les dessins voir le fichier du lien pour avoir le document complet.



Dernière édition par PatrickM le Mar 27 Mar 2018 - 13:29, édité 4 fois
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P. Rivet
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 1 Fév 2018 - 7:24

Une très bonne initiative. De quoi relancer le F3B tout en préservant son côté technique.

Merci de partager Very Happy
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 10:10

Bonjour,

La dernière mouture du règlement F3B-e qui sera présenté à la CIAM prochainement.

Quo Vadis F3B_englisch_actuell.pdf
Class F3B-e_06.02.2018_komplett_Kommentar_GER.pdf

Le lien et le règlement est également mise à jour dans le premier message.

Bonne lecture.
Patrick
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 13:29

Bonjour ,
Ce serais cool Very Happy d'avoir une synthèse en français des spécificités de la formule F3B-E pour les nuls en anglais comme moi et surement d'autres ........ Suspect
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 15:29

Voila Jean Mi:

Pour résumer le F3B-e :
Les épreuves sont les mêmes que pour le F3B, durée, distance et vitesse.
La montée se fait au moteur électrique à la place du treuil.

Les planeurs sont les mêmes, point de vu caractéristiques que les F3B classiques.
La masse mini est de 35 g/dm² soit environ 2.2/2.3 Kg
La masse max 75 g/dm² soit environ 4.5 kg

Un contrôleur de type Alti V4 avec un programme adapté coupera le moteur après une consommation de 400 Wmin, ce contrôleur donnera également la performance moyenne du moteur qui est limité à 800 W (pénalité en cas de dépassement).

Le moteur coupé il ne sera plus  possible de le redémarrer.

La monté doit se faire de la ligne de treuil base A vers la Base B.

Les redéparts sont possibles après atterrissage dans une zone défini et une réinitialisation manuelle du moteur au sol.

Les temps de travail sont les mêmes soit:
12 minutes pour la durée et il faut faire 10 minutes au plus près possible avec atterrissage de précision (comme en F3B). A noter que pour la durée le gros changement est que le principe du F5J est appliqué pour la hauteur de coupure moteur et cette Hauteur rentre dans le calcul des points. Le temps de vol démarre au décollage.

Pour la Distance le temps de travail est de 7 minutes et temps de vol max pris en compte pour la distance 4 minutes (comme en F3B).

Pour la vitesse le temps de travail est de 4 minutes, pas de redépart possible si l’on passe la Base A vers la B (comme en F3B).

A noter que à partir de cette année pour le F3B ou F3B-e la zone d’atterrissage possible est défini au briefing. Atterrissage hors zone (notamment hors terrain = pénalité).

Une traduction complète sera faites après l'adoption de cette catégorie.

Patrick


Dernière édition par PatrickM le Mer 16 Mai 2018 - 15:22, édité 2 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 15:57

Patrick,

Ouahhhh c'est énorme comme puissance disponible pour une montée, car avec maximum 800Watts en instantanée et une énergie maximum de 400Wmin, cela veut dire que tu pourrais avoir une motorisation qui absorbe 790 Watts en pointe (soit environ 80A en 3SLipos et environ 60A en 4S lipos).
ce qui veut dire que l'on pourrait avec ce type de motorisation mettre 30 Secondes de moteur plein gaz (avec 800Watts) tongue

Avec cette puissance sur un F3B moderne de 3Kgr , on peut monter entre 370 et 400 mètres je pense, sans souci.
Le problème c'est qu'un moteur de Ø28mm et 200gr qui passe 800Watts pendant 30 secondes sans interruption va commencer à sentir le chaud scratch

Pour infos sur mon SHOOTER électrique, avec environ 620 Watts , je monte à 230m en moins de 20 secondes, sans vent (avec ~ 300 gr de ballast)


STEPHANE
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 16:10

Cette puissance a été retenue pour avoir une hauteur d'environ 250 mètres pour la vitesse.
Pour la distance la hauteur sera fonction du choix du pilote sur la masse du planeur.
Pour la durée pas de soucis il faudra couper en dessous de 220 mètres pour ne pas augmenter fortement les points de pénalités par mètres.
0,5 points par mètre jusqu'a 220 mètres et 3 points par mètre au dessus.
Rien n'oblige d’avoir 800 w (c'est une limite) avec moins de puissance la montée sera juste plus longue.
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stefmog
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 16:23

Patrick,

Dans mon cas sur mon vieux Shooter, ballasté à plus de 3Kgr, je suis déjà à 250m en moins de 25 secondes et avec environ 620/ 630 Watts maxi.
A mon avis il va y avoir des pilotes qui vont partir de 300 mètres voir plus avec un F3B de 3,5 Kgr en vitesse tongue
(Surtout avec un bon lanceur au départ)

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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 16:53

C'est ce que l'on a déjà aujourd'hui avec des F3B par bonnes conditions.
Il faut que les performances en vitesse soit au moins aussi bonnes, si non cela n'intéressera personne.

Cette puissance est également nécessaire pour un décollage en toute sécurité a plein charge.

Il y aura peut être des ajustements avec l’expérience du terrain.
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 18:19

Super Patrick cheers un résumé comme ça me va très bien tiptop
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 18:45

Patrick,

Les 800 Watts maxi ne me dérange pas et me semble même être une bonne valeur max !
Mais les 400Wmin/ montée c'est déjà beaucoup et cela risque de faire des écart entre ceux qui vont pouvoir avoir des bons Yeux et les autres..........

Il faut voir sur le terrain comme tu dis.

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Nicolas Ridray
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 18:57

Salut Patrick,

Je lis tout ça avec intérêt !

Mais je n’ai pas très bien compris certains points de la proposition de règlement. Tu vas surement m’expliquer :

Pour la durée, OK, comme en F5J avec une pénalisation par altitude. Attention, je crois qu’il y a une erreur ! Ralf dit :
i) Each metre of the recorded start altitude results in a deduction of half (0,5) a second / metre up to
220 metre and three (3) seconds / metre above 220 metre.

Mais ensuite il est ecrit:
a) Partial Score for Task A for each competitor is determined as follows:
Partial Score A = 1000 x P1 / Pw
P1 ≤ 220 m = Flight [s] – 0,5 x height-start altitude [m] (see 5.8.2.3.h)
P1 > 220 m = Flight [s] – 3 x height-start altitude [m] (see 5.8.2.3.h)


Ça veut dire que si tu dépasses 220m c’est 3s/m depuis le sol ?????? En F5J c’est 200m mais les 3s/m sont pour les mètres au-delà de 200m. En dessous ça reste 0,5s/m. Si on veut faire comme en F5J, ca serait P1 > 220 m = Flight [s] – ((220x0,5) +(3 x (height-start altitude -220))
Il y a-t-il erreur ou est-ce volontaire ???


Pour la distance et la vitesse, si je comprends bien, il n’y a pas de limite autre que la performance et l’énergie dépensée…
Comme Stéphane, je trouve ça beaucoup cette limite de 800W / 400W.min… Ça me parait disproportionné par rapport aux disons 250/260 d’un treuillage moyen.

Pour info, avec mon Shooter électrifié qui collerait parfaitement au règlement (2kg400 à vide/3kg650 full ballast, motorisation 700W environ en 4S) je dois pouvoir monter à plus de 300m avec 400W.min De mémoire j’ai les taux de montée suivants : 9m/s full ballast, 12m/s à mi ballast et 15m/s à vide. Et le règlement me permettrait un peu plus de 30s de moteur.
A l’occasion je remesurerai pour confirmer.
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 19:36

Nicolas,
Tu as raison il doit y avoir une erreur.
Je vais en parler à Ralf.
400wmin c'est peut-être trop mais c'est un départ.
Il sera facile de modifier le programme du V4 au besoin (350wmin par exemple).
Ne pas oublier qu'il faut revenir de la base B pour prendre le départ, donc perte d'altitude.
Merci
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Jeu 15 Fév 2018 - 21:45

Salut Nicolas,

Merci pour ta remarque et pour ton retour d'expérience, cela coïncide avec ce que je pensait......


Patrick,

Je ne comprend pas comment avec un appareil de type ALTI V4 on va pouvoir contrôler et mesurer la puissance maximum et l’énergie maxi par montée scratch sachant que ce type d'appareil est monté entre le contrôleur et le récepteur .
Il va falloir monter un dispositif du type de celui utilisé en F5B et qui est en série sur la chaine de puissance............... enfin il me semble.

Sinon, pour la distance , il faut prévoir de repartir 2 fois, soit trois montée de suite au moteur à environ 250m, donc il faudra quand m^me un peu d'autonomie:

Si on calcul cela donne minimum des 1800 Mah en 3S sous 78A et des 1300Mah en 4S sous 59 A environ pour avoir un peu moins des 400Wmin.

Voilà
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Ven 16 Fév 2018 - 13:47

Bien vu Nicolas, c'etait bien une erreur.
Cela va être corrigé.
Merci
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Roland Henninot
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MessageSujet: F3B-E   Sam 17 Fév 2018 - 11:51

Salut Patrick,

Merci pour les infos du nouveau règlement F3B-E,
voici la liste du matos utilisé en F5B je pense qu'il sera équivalant au F3B-E

1 x UNILOG 2
1 x UNILOG Stromsensor le capteur pour mesurer la puissance (soit le 80A ou le 150A)
1 x Câble USB Interface (pour paramétrer l'UNILOG 2)
ou 1 x UNIDISPLAY

il existe des câbles adaptateur pour utiliser la télémétrie en fonction des marques de radio
a connecter directement sur le récepteur, voir la documentation SM-MODELLBAU,

pour Futaba et Spectrum des câbles spécifique a commander voir le lien ci-dessous,
pour Jeti un simple câble prise universel (servos servos) suffit et c'est très facile a utiliser avec la Radio JETI,

https://www.sm-modellbau.de/UniLog-2-und-Zubehoer

un investissement supplémentaire mais bien pratique a utiliser pour mesurer la puissance!!!

A+
Roland
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MessageSujet: Re: Proposition de Reglement F3B-e   Mar 27 Mar 2018 - 13:17

Bonjour,

Je vous engage a regarder sur le site F3B.de la dernière proposition  de la classe F3B-e.
Vous y trouverez le règlement complet et les explications sur les choix.

Voici le lien http://www.f3b.de/homepage/Startseite

Ou en Français avec traduction google (pas toujours parfaite).
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=fr&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f3b.de%2Fhomepage%2FStartseite

Patrick
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